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Club Equipment Update

#21 · September 9, 2023, 2:23 pm

Quote from Ckirlew on September 9, 2023, 2:23 pm
Let's get back to an action item list. Here is a proposed list of things to do. The next step would be to get approval to do them and then a plan on how and when to do them. There should be a who does them in there as well.

Control pads - I am becoming concerned about the quality of the pads we have. I am in favor of Brian building something new and the club compensating him for his efforts. However, I don't think we can afford what he is worth. There may be some kind of ethics question here about a board president receiving compensation from the club. I have now addressed the ethics issue and we can move forward.😁

I am not in favor of one big controller. Storing and transporting something to control 18+ pads plus all the wiring as one unit doesn't sound like fun to me. There was some mention somewhere of using a different cable. I would need to understand how that works. We have enough trouble sorting out the 6 sets of wires for each pad as it is. Doing 18 at once sounds like trouble and heavy. The biggest concern I have for having one big unit is what happens if it fails? We have no plan B available to do a launch. With multiple smaller controllers, we can keep going with the working ones. It would be great to have the larger pads (1/4" and rails) do wireless. Not sure if Brian has that expertise. (Did I just challenge him?)

1/8" and 3/16" pads - We have enough pads for 1/8" and 3/16" rods. Although there were a couple of times at the last launch we had people waiting to get a pad.

1/4 pad - Another one would be good. Could be a new design or the same as the old one. My preference would be to have all versions of any item to be very similar to the others so that setup is the same.

1010 rail - We need another one. We should be encouraging our members to use rails instead of the 1/4"rods for the bigger stuff. We should be supporting ARC using rails as well. The existing setup is ok but we lose about a foot or more of usable rail. One adjustment that it is missing is side to side tilt. I have handled this with wedging a hammer under one leg. Something more elegant would be nice.

Launch board - The edging came off it awhile back. I will take on repairing it. I will also look at a way to secure it to the table.

Batteries - 12 volts! I think any higher voltage opens us up for frying electronics. Lighter batteries would be nice. Backups or being able to recharge the PA system components is a good idea.

NAR grant - We can apply every year for up to $250. We do have money in the treasury, but we shouldn't overlook this opportunity. The above items will cost some money. Perhaps would should cost out each group of items and approve them individually.

All comments welcome. The sooner you comment, the sooner you get to pick which item you will do,

Charlie

Let's get back to an action item list. Here is a proposed list of things to do. The next step would be to get approval to do them and then a plan on how and when to do them. There should be a who does them in there as well.

Control pads - I am becoming concerned about the quality of the pads we have. I am in favor of Brian building something new and the club compensating him for his efforts. However, I don't think we can afford what he is worth. There may be some kind of ethics question here about a board president receiving compensation from the club. I have now addressed the ethics issue and we can move forward.😁

I am not in favor of one big controller. Storing and transporting something to control 18+ pads plus all the wiring as one unit doesn't sound like fun to me. There was some mention somewhere of using a different cable. I would need to understand how that works. We have enough trouble sorting out the 6 sets of wires for each pad as it is. Doing 18 at once sounds like trouble and heavy. The biggest concern I have for having one big unit is what happens if it fails? We have no plan B available to do a launch. With multiple smaller controllers, we can keep going with the working ones. It would be great to have the larger pads (1/4" and rails) do wireless. Not sure if Brian has that expertise. (Did I just challenge him?)
1/8" and 3/16" pads - We have enough pads for 1/8" and 3/16" rods. Although there were a couple of times at the last launch we had people waiting to get a pad.
1/4 pad - Another one would be good. Could be a new design or the same as the old one. My preference would be to have all versions of any item to be very similar to the others so that setup is the same.
1010 rail - We need another one. We should be encouraging our members to use rails instead of the 1/4"rods for the bigger stuff. We should be supporting ARC using rails as well. The existing setup is ok but we lose about a foot or more of usable rail. One adjustment that it is missing is side to side tilt. I have handled this with wedging a hammer under one leg. Something more elegant would be nice.
Launch board - The edging came off it awhile back. I will take on repairing it. I will also look at a way to secure it to the table.
Batteries - 12 volts! I think any higher voltage opens us up for frying electronics. Lighter batteries would be nice. Backups or being able to recharge the PA system components is a good idea.
NAR grant - We can apply every year for up to $250. We do have money in the treasury, but we shouldn't overlook this opportunity. The above items will cost some money. Perhaps would should cost out each group of items and approve them individually.

All comments welcome. The sooner you comment, the sooner you get to pick which item you will do,

Charlie

Eric Becher has reacted to this post.

#22 · September 9, 2023, 3:25 pm

Quote from Eric Becher on September 9, 2023, 3:25 pm
I concur with all you said, but to add a few comments:

Controllers: I don't know if it is the boxes, wires, batteries, or clips, but we do seem to be having some frustrations in launching. Not all of it is the system's fault (some issues are still starter or motor related), but we can certainly do better. IMHO, we could do well with 2 controllers - a Low power for the 2 racks, and a high power for the various rails and rods we have ancillary to the racks. The controllers should have capacity for more than what we are doing now so we can expand easily in the future (which seems to be where we are headed, slowly but surely). So perhaps the low power controller should have 18 positions (so we can someday add a 3rd rack). The high power controller should be able to handle perhaps up to 12 launchers (in case we ever get that high power field we are looking for). This kind of layout would also provide some measure of redundancy or capacity should we have a failure of one controller. And of course, keep the old stuff just in case! As for wires, Brian thinks we could use CAT-5 wire, which would be much lighter and smaller to work with than what we have now. Eliminating some of those connectors would help too.

Rails: agree with you 100%. Let's do it. But also keep an eye out for that 3rd rack in the not too distant future as we keep growing.

Launch board: let me know if you want a hand. Could even replace it, but that one works and is nice and lightweight. I don't expect you'll actually need a hand, but let me know if you do.

Batteries: I am not an expert, but I don't know that what we have are the causes of any problems. Still, if improvements can be made cost effectively, I'm all for it. BTW, can that microphone receiver be charged with one of those portable phone charger devices ("power bank" I think they are called)? I have a few small ones on hand that I never use, and can bring you to try out. Might be an easy way to deal with it on the field. (aside from changing its internal battery, if that's necessary) Just need the charging cord with us.

NAR Grant: Any year we are not applying for this is a year that we "lose" $250. We have projects and outreach expenses that could use the funding. I'd be happy to look into this if we want to do so, although I have no experience in doing it. I assume we'd need a plan and cost estimate for the money we're applying for.

Not sure what our total balance is, but I am pretty sure we should have the money to do at least a few of these things right away.

I concur with all you said, but to add a few comments:

Controllers: I don't know if it is the boxes, wires, batteries, or clips, but we do seem to be having some frustrations in launching. Not all of it is the system's fault (some issues are still starter or motor related), but we can certainly do better. IMHO, we could do well with 2 controllers - a Low power for the 2 racks, and a high power for the various rails and rods we have ancillary to the racks. The controllers should have capacity for more than what we are doing now so we can expand easily in the future (which seems to be where we are headed, slowly but surely). So perhaps the low power controller should have 18 positions (so we can someday add a 3rd rack). The high power controller should be able to handle perhaps up to 12 launchers (in case we ever get that high power field we are looking for). This kind of layout would also provide some measure of redundancy or capacity should we have a failure of one controller. And of course, keep the old stuff just in case! As for wires, Brian thinks we could use CAT-5 wire, which would be much lighter and smaller to work with than what we have now. Eliminating some of those connectors would help too.

Rails: agree with you 100%. Let's do it. But also keep an eye out for that 3rd rack in the not too distant future as we keep growing.

Launch board: let me know if you want a hand. Could even replace it, but that one works and is nice and lightweight. I don't expect you'll actually need a hand, but let me know if you do.

Batteries: I am not an expert, but I don't know that what we have are the causes of any problems. Still, if improvements can be made cost effectively, I'm all for it. BTW, can that microphone receiver be charged with one of those portable phone charger devices ("power bank" I think they are called)? I have a few small ones on hand that I never use, and can bring you to try out. Might be an easy way to deal with it on the field. (aside from changing its internal battery, if that's necessary) Just need the charging cord with us.

NAR Grant: Any year we are not applying for this is a year that we "lose" $250. We have projects and outreach expenses that could use the funding. I'd be happy to look into this if we want to do so, although I have no experience in doing it. I assume we'd need a plan and cost estimate for the money we're applying for.

Not sure what our total balance is, but I am pretty sure we should have the money to do at least a few of these things right away.

#23 · September 9, 2023, 8:14 pm

Two controllers, one for low power, one for mid power. That sounds like a good idea.

I'll let you know about the launch board.

Power bank should work for the mic receiver. Not sure if it will function when it's charging. It might. Worth a short.

Let take it for "grant"ed.

#24 · September 10, 2023, 11:30 am

Quote from Eric Becher on September 9, 2023, 3:25 pm

BTW, can that microphone receiver be charged with one of those portable phone charger devices ("power bank" I think they are called)? I have a few small ones on hand that I never use, and can bring you to try out. Might be an easy way to deal with it on the field. (aside from changing its internal battery, if that's necessary) Just need the charging cord with us.

The answer to that is "yes". Any device that is charged via USB cable expects 5 volts (except USB-C which is a totally different standard and is really no longer USB anything really anymore, but's that's a subject for another time); so therefore, YES, the microphone wireless reciever, which has what looks like a micro-USB plug can be charged with the appropriate cable and those lipstick batteries (aka Power Banks) which can be used to charge your phone in the field.

If I'd had one of those in my car last month, I could have charged it up, but I'm not yet carrying enough stuff with me yet. I'll start recitifying that with an appropriate toolbox of gear which I'm going to start assembling.

#25 · September 10, 2023, 11:35 am

Quote from Brian C. on September 10, 2023, 11:30 am

Quote from Eric Becher on September 9, 2023, 3:25 pm

BTW, can that microphone receiver be charged with one of those portable phone charger devices ("power bank" I think they are called)? I have a few small ones on hand that I never use, and can bring you to try out. Might be an easy way to deal with it on the field. (aside from changing its internal battery, if that's necessary) Just need the charging cord with us.

The answer to that is "yes". Any device that is charged via USB cable expects 5 volts (except USB-C which is a totally different standard and is really no longer USB anything really anymore, but's that's a subject for another time); so therefore, YES, the microphone wireless reciever, which has what looks like a micro-USB plug can be charged with the appropriate cable and those lipstick batteries (aka Power Banks) which can be used to charge your phone in the field.

If I'd had one of those in my car last month, I could have charged it up, but I'm not yet carrying enough stuff with me yet. I'll start recitifying that with an appropriate toolbox of gear which I'm going to start assembling.

I have a "jump box" in my vehicle at all times. Besides the ability to jump a car battery, it also has a light, an air pump, 110V outlet and USB. I offered to get it out to charge the BT microphone receiver.

#26 · September 11, 2023, 4:12 pm

Other than the annoying beeping....could we upgrade the club launch controller to the wireless fireworks launch system the Brian often uses. It seems to be pretty reliable. Other than having more batteries to deal with are there any other down sides? It could make launch setup/tear-down time a bit quicker too.

Many options on fleaBay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=fireworks+launch+controller&_sacat=0

#27 · September 12, 2023, 12:24 pm

I guess it's a question of do you want to deal with wires, or batteries.

Oh wait, there's that annoying beeping. Imagine that going on almost ALL THE TIME! No worries, I'll bring my hammer to the launch.

#28 · September 12, 2023, 1:07 pm

Quote from Eric Becher on September 12, 2023, 12:24 pm

I guess it's a question of do you want to deal with wires, or batteries.

Oh wait, there's that annoying beeping. Imagine that going on almost ALL THE TIME! No worries, I'll bring my hammer to the launch.

FWIW, *I* added that "beeping" to the cue. It's not a default feature of the off-the-shelf radio cues. WHY did I add it?

It audibly announces that the remote cue has been enabled for launch. Therefore, clear the area. It's to appease NAR safety code.
It audibly announces that the remote cue has been enabled for launch. Therefore, turn it off after the launch to save battery.

Battery drain from that added piezo and beep circuitry is minimal. My cues have been outfitted with dual 14500 LiPo 1000mAh batteries and dual LiFeS2 (Eveready Ultimate Lithium) batteries that can supply 2A under load for brief loads such as an igniter. An Estes igniter is spec'ed to operate on 6V@2A. The voltage from the cue is nearly 12V@<2Amax; that's nearly twice the power necessary.

Also, when one depresses the button on the transmitter, it sends a code to the assigned cue and channel (4 channels per cue). The cue provides a current for 1.4 to 1.5 seconds. Holding the button down on the transmitter does NOT prolong the period current is applied. 😉 It only wears down the transmitter's batteries.

My launch leads used with the cues were constructed using 18ga. low-oxygen copper speaker wire and silver soldered connectors (clips and plugs). 18ga is overkill but 20ga. and 22ga. where not available at the time I ordered the cable.

For LARGE COUNT cluster configurations (eg. the 7-motor ClusterDuck launch), I created a solid-state relay circuit that uses a 12V@2.9A SLA AGM battery that is switched from the cue channel. IIRC, all 7 motors ignited too. 😉

Eric Becher has reacted to this post.

#29 · September 12, 2023, 3:05 pm

That's all well and good. Makes sense. Supports the operation and enhances safety. Don't change a thing on yours. 👍

But that beeping is still annoying!! 🙉

🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨

#30 · September 12, 2023, 4:46 pm

Quote from Eric Becher on September 12, 2023, 3:05 pm

That's all well and good. Makes sense. Supports the operation and enhances safety. Don't change a thing on yours.

But that beeping is still annoying!!

I had thought about changing it up and improving it. I could get a memory chip, a DSP chipset, and a small SOC amplifier and a speaker instead of the piezo sounder. With a memory and DSP, I could program it to play something soothing like the "More Beer Polka" on bagpipes, accordion and theremin.

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