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National Rocketry Competition

#1 · January 18, 2023, 2:53 pm

I have been contacted, via the website's contact form, by a party wondering if CENJARS would host an NRC event. If you're not familiar, there is information about these events on the NAR website. https://www.nar.org/contest-flying/

Please take a few moments to review the information on the NAR website via the provided link and comment. I'd like to know what you think about this and if the club should expend its energies to host such an event.

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#2 · January 18, 2023, 5:49 pm

Quote from Eric Becher on January 18, 2023, 5:49 pm
Define "Event".

If I am reading the NAR site correctly, any 2 NAR people (one of them an adult) can get together and fly a competition rocket, then post the results to the national scoreboard. So is someone looking to fly an event and needs a place to fly and a witness? If that's the case, that shouldn't be too much trouble. We register 48hrs in advance of our intentions. One of us brushes up on the rules and brings a stopwatch. Easy to do and I'd like to support interested folks in this.

BUT... is the party is asking if we can hold a large event with many contestants from throughout the region, conducting all NRC events, in all 4 divisions? That's a whole different ball of cheese. I don't think we can easily support that, as much as I would like to say "yes" to advancing the hobby and the Club as an active NAR section in our area. Just off the top of my head, we would face the following challenges:

Field - too small and not level, which makes duration flying a problem. We need not just flying room, but a larger staging area for many more folks than we usually have, plus areas for the event workers to work in.

Not enough resources to set up for hosting. We'd needs tents and tables, many launch rods (completely different from what we have, that support piston launching), many volunteers to run everything from check in tables to set up and breaking down, to judging and recording results. Some of these volunteers need to be experienced in running competition events.

For serious competition events - a new and larger launch controller setup (which some of us have talked about anyway).

Field resources - not enough parking, for hosting a big event - we might need the bathrooms opened, and arrangements for trash removal. Plus - we'd need permission from the school to host such an event.

We don't know what we don't know. If we commit to this we may find more issues that we will have trouble overcoming.

And mind you - I have never been to a NRC event, so I don't even know what I'm talking about. But I've seen some pictures and videos. Maybe I am thinking way too big. If that's the case, and this is an event with only a few folks, with their own equipment, who only need a club's launch site, well then see my 1st paragraph above and let's roll with it!

Define "Event".

If I am reading the NAR site correctly, any 2 NAR people (one of them an adult) can get together and fly a competition rocket, then post the results to the national scoreboard. So is someone looking to fly an event and needs a place to fly and a witness? If that's the case, that shouldn't be too much trouble. We register 48hrs in advance of our intentions. One of us brushes up on the rules and brings a stopwatch. Easy to do and I'd like to support interested folks in this.

BUT... is the party is asking if we can hold a large event with many contestants from throughout the region, conducting all NRC events, in all 4 divisions? That's a whole different ball of cheese. I don't think we can easily support that, as much as I would like to say "yes" to advancing the hobby and the Club as an active NAR section in our area. Just off the top of my head, we would face the following challenges:

Field - too small and not level, which makes duration flying a problem. We need not just flying room, but a larger staging area for many more folks than we usually have, plus areas for the event workers to work in.
Not enough resources to set up for hosting. We'd needs tents and tables, many launch rods (completely different from what we have, that support piston launching), many volunteers to run everything from check in tables to set up and breaking down, to judging and recording results. Some of these volunteers need to be experienced in running competition events.
For serious competition events - a new and larger launch controller setup (which some of us have talked about anyway).
Field resources - not enough parking, for hosting a big event - we might need the bathrooms opened, and arrangements for trash removal. Plus - we'd need permission from the school to host such an event.
We don't know what we don't know. If we commit to this we may find more issues that we will have trouble overcoming.

And mind you - I have never been to a NRC event, so I don't even know what I'm talking about. But I've seen some pictures and videos. Maybe I am thinking way too big. If that's the case, and this is an event with only a few folks, with their own equipment, who only need a club's launch site, well then see my 1st paragraph above and let's roll with it!

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#3 · January 18, 2023, 6:11 pm

Quote from Admin on January 18, 2023, 6:11 pm

Quote from Eric Becher on January 18, 2023, 5:49 pm

Define "Event".

If I am reading the NAR site correctly, any 2 NAR people (one of them an adult) can get together and fly a competition rocket, then post the results to the national scoreboard. So is someone looking to fly an event and needs a place to fly and a witness? If that's the case, that shouldn't be too much trouble. We register 48hrs in advance of our intentions. One of us brushes up on the rules and brings a stopwatch. Easy to do and I'd like to support interested folks in this.

I believe that assisting the flier(s) to perform the precursory challenges to qualify for the national event would be all they may be looking to do. Much like the TARC folk that come out to our launches.

BUT... is the party is asking if we can hold a large event with many contestants from throughout the region, conducting all NRC events, in all 4 divisions? That's a whole different ball of cheese. I don't think we can easily support that, as much as I would like to say "yes" to advancing the hobby and the Club as an active NAR section in our area. Just off the top of my head, we would face the following challenges:

Field - too small and not level, which makes duration flying a problem. We need not just flying room, but a larger staging area for many more folks than we usually have, plus areas for the event workers to work in.

Not enough resources to set up for hosting. We'd needs tents and tables, many launch rods (completely different from what we have, that support piston launching), many volunteers to run everything from check in tables to set up and breaking down, to judging and recording results. Some of these volunteers need to be experienced in running competition events.

For serious competition events - a new and larger launch controller setup (which some of us have talked about anyway).

Field resources - not enough parking, for hosting a big event - we might need the bathrooms opened, and arrangements for trash removal. Plus - we'd need permission from the school to host such an event.

We don't know what we don't know. If we commit to this we may find more issues that we will have trouble overcoming.

I wouldn't try to hold a full-fledged NRC event. Helping those interested in the national event is fine; I have no interest in trying to coordinate a mega-event. The Apollo 11 50th launch was enough to coordinate.

And mind you - I have never been to a NRC event, so I don't even know what I'm talking about. But I've seen some pictures and videos. Maybe I am thinking way too big. If that's the case, and this is an event with only a few folks, with their own equipment, who only need a club's launch site, well then see my 1st paragraph above and let's roll with it!

I've never attended one either. I really have no interest, personally, in the NAR competition events. I'm an engineer. I prefer to compete with the physics.

I'd like to say we can accommodate such individuals because it'd help grow the club membership. The individual that posited the question is in the NY area and, as we all know, very little opportunity in the densely populated northern NJ/NY area to fly rockets.

Quote from Eric Becher on January 18, 2023, 5:49 pm

Define "Event".

If I am reading the NAR site correctly, any 2 NAR people (one of them an adult) can get together and fly a competition rocket, then post the results to the national scoreboard. So is someone looking to fly an event and needs a place to fly and a witness? If that's the case, that shouldn't be too much trouble. We register 48hrs in advance of our intentions. One of us brushes up on the rules and brings a stopwatch. Easy to do and I'd like to support interested folks in this.

I believe that assisting the flier(s) to perform the precursory challenges to qualify for the national event would be all they may be looking to do. Much like the TARC folk that come out to our launches.

BUT... is the party is asking if we can hold a large event with many contestants from throughout the region, conducting all NRC events, in all 4 divisions? That's a whole different ball of cheese. I don't think we can easily support that, as much as I would like to say "yes" to advancing the hobby and the Club as an active NAR section in our area. Just off the top of my head, we would face the following challenges:

Field - too small and not level, which makes duration flying a problem. We need not just flying room, but a larger staging area for many more folks than we usually have, plus areas for the event workers to work in.

Not enough resources to set up for hosting. We'd needs tents and tables, many launch rods (completely different from what we have, that support piston launching), many volunteers to run everything from check in tables to set up and breaking down, to judging and recording results. Some of these volunteers need to be experienced in running competition events.

For serious competition events - a new and larger launch controller setup (which some of us have talked about anyway).

Field resources - not enough parking, for hosting a big event - we might need the bathrooms opened, and arrangements for trash removal. Plus - we'd need permission from the school to host such an event.

We don't know what we don't know. If we commit to this we may find more issues that we will have trouble overcoming.

I wouldn't try to hold a full-fledged NRC event. Helping those interested in the national event is fine; I have no interest in trying to coordinate a mega-event. The Apollo 11 50th launch was enough to coordinate.

And mind you - I have never been to a NRC event, so I don't even know what I'm talking about. But I've seen some pictures and videos. Maybe I am thinking way too big. If that's the case, and this is an event with only a few folks, with their own equipment, who only need a club's launch site, well then see my 1st paragraph above and let's roll with it!

I've never attended one either. I really have no interest, personally, in the NAR competition events. I'm an engineer. I prefer to compete with the physics.

I'd like to say we can accommodate such individuals because it'd help grow the club membership. The individual that posited the question is in the NY area and, as we all know, very little opportunity in the densely populated northern NJ/NY area to fly rockets.

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#4 · January 18, 2023, 6:49 pm

I should think that is something we could do for a limited number of folks willing to come to our field. We just need a volunteer (who is a member of NAR) willing to read up on the competition rules a bit, and meet the folks interested at the launch.

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#5 · January 19, 2023, 7:33 pm

The number of people competing is a big factor. What else are we expected to do? We don't have much in the way of launch equipment. If we get more equipment, who or how is it going to be stored? The current equipment manager can't take on any more without a large purge of his garage. Dan has more experience with competition events. Might be a good resource for getting/building equipment.

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#6 · January 19, 2023, 9:11 pm

Quote from Ckirlew on January 19, 2023, 7:33 pm

The number of people competing is a big factor. What else are we expected to do? We don't have much in the way of launch equipment. If we get more equipment, who or how is it going to be stored? The current equipment manager can't take on any more without a large purge of his garage. Dan has more experience with competition events. Might be a good resource for getting/building equipment.

We don't have hoards of fliers now, so I wouldn't expect a huge number if we do setup to accommodate these competitions.

The NRC events are for small, low-powered rockets. We have launch pads (12) with rods. One does not need to compete in the entire gamut of NRC classes/competitions.

I don't foresee you needing to store any additional equipment.

Reading the NRC documents, it appears that an individual can do one-off launches as long as there's a witness to attest to the results. I believe that the TARC teams are doing this now and doing it without a third-party attestation to or of their results.

Regardless, I opened this up for discussion and debate. There has been no decision made pro or con.

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#7 · January 20, 2023, 11:19 am

Quote from Eric Becher on January 20, 2023, 11:19 am
For the occasional competitor who wishes to launch and qualify with us, the most I could see the Club needing, equipment-wise, is a competition style launch tower. From what I see, you can't compete seriously without a tower and using a piston tube launch arrangement. Apogee sells a couple of towers, one is complete for $209, and one that mounts on a photography tripod for a little less (but you need to have the tripod). Charlie's equipment storage/handling concern is certainly valid (we ask a lot of him already). They look like they collapse to a small size. If we go that route, it shouldn't require an empty garage to store. A 4ft cardboard shipping tube and small bag/box of parts. Dan may possibly even have one that we can utilize for this. And we'd only need it for the times a competitor needs it (by prior arrangement). Perhaps the "advisor" (mentor, coach?) could handle this piece of equipment instead of Charlie.

So I guess the questions are:

Do we have a volunteer who is a NAR member and is, or will become, knowledgeable enough on how to participate in the contest? (Perhaps the competitor already knows more than we do and just needs the field and a NAR witness?)

Do we need to supply a launch tower, and if so, will it be used enough to justify the cost/hassle?

Would doing this attract more membership and promote the hobby for minimal effort/impact, making it worthwhile? Is this something other current members want to participate in? I think Brian is not very interested (not really certain though🤔) but Dan probably is. If we start down this road, might others take it up? It's very possible that a few will.

We could use some input from the rank and file membership. Is anybody else interested? (Is anybody else reading this?)Post a quick 1-liner to let us know if you would try some of these competitions? The rockets aren't big, and expensive (quite the opposite). It's just another avenue to make things go "whoosh" with a little competitive spirit thrown in.

For the occasional competitor who wishes to launch and qualify with us, the most I could see the Club needing, equipment-wise, is a competition style launch tower. From what I see, you can't compete seriously without a tower and using a piston tube launch arrangement. Apogee sells a couple of towers, one is complete for $209, and one that mounts on a photography tripod for a little less (but you need to have the tripod). Charlie's equipment storage/handling concern is certainly valid (we ask a lot of him already). They look like they collapse to a small size. If we go that route, it shouldn't require an empty garage to store. A 4ft cardboard shipping tube and small bag/box of parts. Dan may possibly even have one that we can utilize for this. And we'd only need it for the times a competitor needs it (by prior arrangement). Perhaps the "advisor" (mentor, coach?) could handle this piece of equipment instead of Charlie.

So I guess the questions are:

Do we have a volunteer who is a NAR member and is, or will become, knowledgeable enough on how to participate in the contest? (Perhaps the competitor already knows more than we do and just needs the field and a NAR witness?)
Do we need to supply a launch tower, and if so, will it be used enough to justify the cost/hassle?
Would doing this attract more membership and promote the hobby for minimal effort/impact, making it worthwhile? Is this something other current members want to participate in? I think Brian is not very interested (not really certain though🤔) but Dan probably is. If we start down this road, might others take it up? It's very possible that a few will.

We could use some input from the rank and file membership. Is anybody else interested? (Is anybody else reading this?)Post a quick 1-liner to let us know if you would try some of these competitions? The rockets aren't big, and expensive (quite the opposite). It's just another avenue to make things go "whoosh" with a little competitive spirit thrown in.

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#8 · January 20, 2023, 12:14 pm

The qualifying NRC event seems doable. I nominate Dan to lead as he appears to be the person interested in these flights. Not sure if he is online. Perhaps discuss at next launch

I will help as well. Joan can handle crowds. Yes to bathroom

#9 · January 20, 2023, 12:41 pm

Quote from Zielijo1 on January 20, 2023, 12:14 pm

The qualifying NRC event seems doable. I nominate Dan to lead as he appears to be the person interested in these flights. Not sure if he is online. Perhaps discuss at next launch

Dan is on-line, maybe, once a week when he goes to the public library.

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#10 · January 20, 2023, 12:51 pm

Quote from Eric Becher on January 20, 2023, 11:19 am

Apogee sells a couple of towers, one is complete for $209, and one that mounts on a photography tripod for a little less (but you need to have the tripod). Charlie's equipment storage/handling concern is certainly valid (we ask a lot of him already). They look like they collapse to a small size.

A launch tower is a simple build. There are 'thangz' on thingiverse.com and elsewhere that can be 3D printed which hold the guides. I can make those and, in fact, I'd probably redesign them some such that the tower could accommodate rockets of various diameters.

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